Caitlin Burritt  00:00 

Thank you for listening to the Unsilencing Stories Podcast. We are in the midst of a public health crisis. More than 32,000 people in Canada have died from fatal opioid overdoses since 2016 according to Health Canada. Previously, this podcast featured interviews with bereaved people in smaller towns and communities in BC and Alberta who have lost loved ones to fatal overdose. In this phase, we're sharing interviews with seven harm reduction workers also known as peers in different parts of BC.  

Caitlin Burritt  00:27 

The BC Centre for Disease Control Harm Reduction Services defines harm reduction as support services and strategies that aim to keep people safe and minimise death, disease and injury from high risk behaviour. Peers face a lot of challenges. This has been documented by many researchers including Zahra Mamdani and colleagues in BC. In their 2021 paper they outline significant challenges peers face including financial struggles, difficulty finding housing and stressors at work. We wanted to explore these themes with peers and find out more about their experiences and share this information with the public. So we conducted multiple remote interviews with harm reduction workers and invited them to talk about the stressors they face.   

Caitlin Burritt  01:06 

Please note this podcast contains information about substance use, overdose death, grief, trauma and stressors that peers face and this may be distressing to listen to. The podcast is part of a research project led by Aaron Goodman, PhD, faculty member at Kwantlen Polytechnic University in Surrey, BC, and conducted under the auspices of a grant known as the Chancellor's Chair Award. I'm Caitlin Burritt, a researcher with the project. A number of researchers including Giorgia Ricciardi and Chloe Burritt, who happens to be my sister, and a number of students have played key roles in the study and you'll hear many of their voices in this podcast.   

Caitlin Burritt  01:40 

In this episode, you'll hear Lucas Akai and Esther Cheung interview Ben about exposure to trauma and workplace stress. Ben speaks about the ongoing traumatic experiences he faces related to the toxic drug crisis, the lack of support for vulnerable populations in his community and the challenges associated with sending people away from rural areas to receive support.  

Esther Cheung  02:00 

How are you doing? 

Ben  02:02 

Pretty well. It's cold today. I can see you're all bundled up. 

Esther Cheung  02:07 

 Yeah. Us too here. It's snowing. 

Lucas Akai  02:11 

Oh, you guys are getting snow?  I haven't. 

Esther Cheung  02:12 

Yeah. 

Esther Cheung  02:13 

Yeah. 

Lucas Akai  02:13 

 Gotten that yet.  

Ben  02:13 

Little bit. 

Esther Cheung  02:14 

It's full on snowing right now. Yeah. How about where you are?  

Ben  02:19 

Yeah, it's tiny bit of snow on the ground. It's coming down still at the moment, but not very, not very much.  

Ben  02:26 

Yeah. 

Esther Cheung  02:26 

Yeah. It's coming. It was light this morning and then even coming back home now, I'm like, 'Oh, it's getting heavier.' Yeah. And how was your week?  

Ben  02:38 

Well, it's just day by day, I'm still waiting for this installation to go in. But the guy told me he had to do it today, but I haven't seen him yet, so. Anyway, it would be nice. The heating bill's gone up quite a bit this month, not surprisingly, but I expect it will keep going up at least until the installation gets put in. 

Esther Cheung  03:03 

Yeah. 

Ben  03:07 

Nothing otherwise really traumatic or anything as far as I can recall. I have multiple conflicts today with meetings that are all happening at the same time. So that's kind of a drag, but have prioritise. This isn't, this isn't one of them. But this afternoon, I have a couple of conflicts,  so  have to figure that out. 

Lucas Akai  03:37 

Well, maybe starting  us off, of course, you know, we are now eight weeks into the interviews. We've come a long way, asked a lot of questions. But there's been one topic on that list that has yet to be discussed. So I think that's where we're going to start off today, with the exposure to trauma section on that list. And we'll stay on the lighter side of that long list of questions maybe today. But starting us off and maybe speaking to the different conflicts you have today with your scheduling, is how do you manage critical stress, workplace trauma, given the field that you're involved in?  

Ben  04:15 

Well, I've been speaking to a counsellor once a week, pretty much for a couple of years who has a background in in substance use issues, I suppose. And certainly is attentive to stress and trauma in my conversations with him. Otherwise, I try to do some exercising on a regular basis, walking, getting out in nature as much as possible, with my partner in a wheelchair, it's a little bit more complicated finding accessible nature spots. But luckily, there's quite a good manual for trails that are accessible, there's quite, quite a few relatively speaking, a pretty good, good portion of the trails are at least partially wheelchair accessible and number of them are quite close to my place.  

Ben  05:28 

And just staying in touch with friends and family, I am in touch with my mother pretty much every day, which one of these days she won't be there anymore. But for now, she's, well, her dad lived into his 90s and her grandmother lived to 104. So it's a pretty good chance to be around for a good while yet, I also am fortunate to have a caring, committed spouse, so that's helpful. And, yeah, just take advantage of any recreational or entertainment opportunities that are in my budget, which typically tend to be, well, I'm part of the, there's a couple of different film clubs that put on movies at our heritage theatre here and try to take those in and do a lot of library events like open mics, and authors readings and stuff like that. And I guess just talking to people like my husband about dramatic issues or events that affect me or both of us. 

Lucas Akai  06:57 

 And so maybe for some some background information, obviously, from our discussions, you've mentioned that you've been in the field for quite some time. So maybe how often do you find yourself confronted with traumatic or stressful situations?  

Ben  07:11 

Well, the, since the toxic drug crisis impacted me personally, quite directly, and came to a head in the springtime, it was sort of ongoing, it was quite traumatic in an ongoing way, just having to cope with that on a daily basis for months and months, prior to getting the fentanyl patch prescriptions in our area. And thankfully, those are working quite well for me, but it's still not really adequate for for many people. So I'm still aware well, and other people that I know working in the field are, some of them aren't having their needs met that way, or they are forced to deal with really unjustified restrictions on their access to their medication.  

Ben  08:16 

So they have to take time off of work or otherwise jump through a lot of hoops to get their needs met if they are able to do so at all. So just being aware of that is kind of stressful in and of itself, just the limited funding that we have for the work and the focus that we've got on that funding to host meetings, which are, have been often tough to get people out to. We're doing a better job of that, but we are certainly more aware of needs and issues that need addressing than we have resources to really attend to them with much focus or energy I suppose. So that is stressful and the the amount of time spent doing distance stuff is also a little less fulfilling than previously prior to COVID, being able to meet in person was as well as just get out of the house and and change of scenery like the conference that we attended recently.  

Ben  08:16 

That was that was happening much more frequently. So I definitely feel like that was it helped to elevate my sense of of value, I guess being afforded those opportunities on a more frequent basis. So I, currently, I am making good use of connections with other people in the field, in my community that are helping me progress with my work. But I'm aware that these people are also experiencing greater stress than myself because they're more confronted constantly with the amount of death and also just economic hardship and so forth that their peers or clients are dealing with. And so it's kind of secondary for me.  

Ben  10:41 

But since I need to maintain those relationships to have any great impact on my community, I'm needing to sort of counsel those people myself, or at least have the capacity to listen to them talk about the ongoing stress and difficulties that they deal with when largely it's, if it's not their clients, or the peers that they're working with, then their employee employers shortcomings or lack of, lack of commitment to the community, or the sort of principles that we would hope to see embraced by the service providers that sometimes are made secondary to the sort of comforts of limited work hours and time off and stuff like that.  

Ben  11:49 

People that are working more in a peer way or in a volunteer way, aren't necessarily able to take advantage of the same way. So I think that's a pretty good overview of the main stressful issues I'm, I'm up against, regularly. 

Ben  12:08 

for 

Lucas Akai  12:08 

For sure, for sure. And do you find that the ways in which you handle that or other individuals that, you know, handle stressful situations has changed since the beginning of the toxic drug crisis, or? 

Ben  12:21 

Well, I, previously, I was able to, I guess, enjoy recreational drug use as a sort of release, which I don't currently really have recourse to, because of my own health and increased age and just my living situation. My spouse's disability, basically, demanding much more of my time and attention, I just previously was a lot more easygoing, I suppose, and tended to have a lot more fun. So I would say it's definitely changed quite a lot I, I really have to make an effort to, as I say, find recreational activities, whereas previously, I could enjoy just getting high. And that would be satisfying enough, and I would sort of, not prioritise getting out to events or stuff like that in, in,in, in those days. So yeah, it's changed considerably. It's not entirely due to external circumstances, but it's, the impact of the circumstances on my reality has a lot to do with it.  

Lucas Akai  13:47 

And so when you face these stressful situations, or these possibly traumatic situations, do you find that you often will block out or maybe shut off your emotions in dealing with the situation? Are there other things that you do, in kind of like, the immediate, whether that's at a workshop or something happens at a workshop, wherever it might be? 

Ben  14:09 

Yeah, I think all of us are relatively shut down in terms of just how we deal with death and trauma in general and our society. But if there were more opportunities to acknowledge those realities in in a collective way that would be helpful. Like we had the Overdose Awareness Day event and that was a really good opportunity to be able some of those feelings in, in a public setting and the people that contributed musical performances and personal stories and stuff like that were, it was very helpful to, to have that context to sort of put my own experience into and, you know, I tend to be, I can be triggered by things like television programmes, or that sort of thing.  

Ben  15:10 

Music to some extent if. So, I think that that indicates that I have certainly got emotional content to my consciousness that I don't have as much opportunity to release or recognise as, as would be ideal. Certainly, even just the fact that I have to talk to my counsellor on the telephone instead of in person. I think, I get more of an emotional release from face to face connection with a person. So I'm currently in the process of switching to a different counsellor, who does in-person work.  

Ben  15:55 

And I've already been working with this person in formal capacity for several months, and they're very supportive in general. And have been helpful in terms of connecting some more with what underlies whatever I'm dealing with on a day to day basis, but we don't necessarily keep the focus on that. So we're not in a formal relationship that way as of yet, but we're moving in that direction. And probably in the next week or so will be more starting to pay this person for their time to make the focus more therapeutic and less social, I guess. 

Lucas Akai  16:43 

And so you mentioned earlier that you often find yourself having to help others in regards to stressful situations and how they handle them. Is that something that you've received training on doing? Is that something that training is even offer for like the peer space or? 

Ben  16:58 

I did hundreds and hundreds of hours of training in group dynamics and one on one and group or couples counselling and stuff like that, as well as holistic health breathwork, and bodywork and that sort of thing. So I definitely, like, I'm a certified holistic massage therapist, and I have worked with dozens of people in context which included being having to be prepared to be present for emotional release. If a person, as often happens in receiving deep bodywork would be connecting to more intnse or, underlying emotional stuff that they weren't previously aware of, necessarily, are in touch with so much as you probably have some understanding of, the body and mind are quite linked or the same thing really, ultimately.  

Ben  18:16 

So when we don't really connect with our whole physical selves, we're not really in touch with our emotions. And especially with all the technology, technological distraction, in our world, can spend most of our time pretty much shut off from all of that stuff. So when a person is able to take the time to spend an hour or more getting deep touch, then they tend to connect more with emotional issues they haven't been paying attention to, so.  

Ben  18:51 

I was trained to do a series of 10 sessions with people. But find that most people are unprepared to go that deeply into their issues. So and I guess also, I was not necessarily in one place. I only settled down in my late 30s and was moving around a lot before that,  so, kind of takes time to build up the word of mouth and that sort of thing to find clients that are really committed to going into a longer process like that. And some people just aren't. 

Ben  19:35 

 Once it starts, it doesn't take much more than three or so, sessions to start uncovering deeper issues that a lot of people are just not really prepared to carry on with once they discover that there's that depth of stuff underlying their stress or tension. So anyway, it's been a while since I was focusing on that. But that was my main livelihood for quite a few years. 

Lucas Akai  20:11 

And so with that training, I imagine that that type of experience and training is not something commonly found throughout the peer space? I mean. 

Ben  20:20 

No, it's a bit. It's surprising sometimes, how many people do have that background.  But it's definitely not. Not terribly common.  

Lucas Akai  20:31 

And so are there specific workshops, maybe that you run using your experience, in particular, to help train others? 

Ben  20:39 

Well, the group dynamics and facilitation stuff is, is very helpful. And I think that just having that background is what allows me to post workshops at all, I don't, I guess some people have more of an experiential tie to stuff like Naloxone or that sort of thing. And they can be inspired to facilitate a workshop through those experiences, but for the most part, other than sort of one on one counselling or just being present, to help people or, or recognise people's legitimacy and existing or just dealing with day to day stuff, I don't think most peers have a particular background in, in helping people process trauma or that sort of thing. I think that's pretty unusual.  

Ben  21:46 

But I, I don't, again, it's, it takes a while to really tap into stuff like that. And I haven't really had a lot of opportunity to work with people in an extensive way other than other people that are more working in the field, as opposed to just peers that I connect with in a sort of, in a passing way through a single workshop or one on one encounter type of thing. I don't know, it's certainly there's few enough opportunities for people to express themselves or connect with their emotions, that if they find an opportunity to speak to someone who's able to listen, then they will take advantage of that. And so I do, I do get people taking advantage of that with me, sometimes, but I do have to limit my availability to some extent, as far as who's got my personal number, that sort of thing.  

Ben  22:55 

And then people that are really hard up, they don't necessarily have access to a phone on a regular basis, and, or maybe can't even take, keep track of a phone number to call. So I don't know, I, I try to be available to people professionally, but I don't, I don't find people have the capacity to draw on that opportunity as necessarily as much as we might hope if it was possible to be more consistent. If we had more funding to be promoting our presence more regularly, that would probably help. But anyway, until there was, until there's more support in one or more ways, I guess, I'm just doing what I can with what I've got, really. 

Lucas Akai  23:59 

And so that actually ties into a lot of other things that we're we've been discussing. Is, in the realm of peer support, and other, maybe, other organisations that also do this work, is there ample training or any kind of training at all for this type of like the actual peers running the workshops? Or is that something that just doesn't exist, really, and each person has to learn as they go kind of idea? 

Ben  24:24 

Well, the Street Degree programme is pretty comprehensive in terms of offering a range of subject matter for training that is both based on, I guess, research and that sort of thing, as well as it's enhanced by the specific experiences of peers giving the workshops and those are, I think that's something that in our, in our region that's been a fair amount of resources and attention has been put into making that, that training available and supporting people to pass it on to others. And I think that's a good thing.  

Ben  25:10 

But as far as the trauma stuff goes, I think that First Nations Health, and their Not Just Naloxone workshops, they have incorporated trauma awareness, quite extensively. And they were doing quite a lot of those workshops prior to COVID. And I think that also the work of Gabor Maté has kind of been impactful in the field, as far as he's got a pretty strong harm reduction focus and there's been quite, quite a lot of buzz about his work in recent years.  

Ben  25:52 

And I don't know, there's probably other, we did a workshop at the conference with queer peer support people that, you know, there's a lot more statistical incidents of suicide and that sort of thing and LGBTQ populations. So there's a bit more awareness there, I guess, which is something that we've obviously connected with, but isn't necessarily always taken advantage of in the wider field, I guess. 

Lucas Akai  26:34 

So do you find that with your ample experience and training and kind of the peer field and how you handle traumatic events? Do you find that that clashes with newer peers that might be just joining the workplace, and the idea is that both parties might have in how to run workshops or how to interact at events? 

Ben  26:52 

And I think that, in general, this is a concern or a conflict, really, with more established service providers. We've talked a bit about how, as funding opportunities have increased, and there's been more sort of stable work opportunities for people in the field, there's been some. Some individuals taking advantage of that, that don't necessarily have the background or necessarily the sincere commitment to the the issues or the population that we're trying to support, that are just trying to earn a paycheck for themselves or that sort of thing. 

Lucas Akai  27:36 

And so when you're interacting is, with these individuals that may have less experience in the field or act inappropriately, in regards to their behaviour within this field, do you find that that affects your own willingness or your own desire to continue working in the field, working with these individuals, whoever they may be? Not naming any names, ff course. 

Ben  28:00 

Yeah, it's a challenge, especially. I guess, like the, to the extent that I try to accommodate the people to just carry on getting things done. That can reflect poorly on me to some extent with other people that are feeling, they're, are objecting to these people's approach or attitudes but and then I guess I, I don't know how how much I can trust the people as far as there's, they're supposed to be supporting my efforts to organise workshops and stuff like that, and I have to take their word for it if they're telling me that they're putting up posters for me or that sort of thing. And I don't necessarily find the evidence that this is happening in terms of turnout or visible evidence of postering and that sort of thing.  

Ben  29:05 

So I think, I don't know it's. I do have the opportunity to share my concerns with the fiscal agent as far as that goes, I, I feel like I've got a good relationship there and they do ask for my opinion on stuff like that, but I guess there's just a lot of, as in general in the world, the status quo kind of prevails and it's easier to let things be and kind of carry on as though they're, these issues aren't really aren't aren't a concern until they are unavoidable and I don't know. I, I do feel like having the responsibility for emphasising them is, is challenging as far as having to be the voice for that in a context where there's very few other people that are not being paid substantially more per hour to be present for meetings and stuff like that.  

Ben  30:31 

So I would say it's, it's, it does, it does impact my willingness to take it on sort of, in a more full, full fledged way, I suppose. It's, it's, it's moving forward, and my willingness to do the work in the future, I guess, as you know, I've been doing this for a long time. So I think that it does undermine my sense of comfort or I don't know. I don't really, I don't know how much longer I'm gonna want to be carrying on this way without sort of more substantial supports, but just have to take it as a comes. At this time, I don't have a lot of other opportunities right now. So I guess, I just have to see how it goes. 

Lucas Akai  31:44 

And so do you find with having to deal with this, like organisation level conflict, do you find that that has put increased pressure on yourself to maybe shield, like, those that you're trying to help from what's going on? Or do you find, like, a greater responsibility in that regard in caring for those that you're supposed to be caring for? When all of this is happening, kind of at the organisational level? 

Ben  32:11 

Well, right now, there's just so little support for people that are really the most vulnerable or affected. And I don't know, I think that it's, it's kind of absurd, actually how how there's people that are getting paychecks to run the overdose prevention site, which is essentially dysfunctional to the degree that the majority of clients are no longer injecting, and there's no current facility for people that are smoking, which is the main way that people are consuming their drugs these days. And there's even only two spots for people to be injecting. And this is sort of this is actually going to be the focus of a of a workshop this week, where one of these people is going to be a presenter, apparently.  

Ben  33:11 

And it seems pretty absurd that there's any kind of emphasis given to quote unquote, expertise in a situation or a context where there's really nothing much happening in terms of support. And I don't know about shielding people, there's really not much you can do for people that are homeless or whatever. I guess currently, I might've ,I mentioned maybe, the conference we attended, there was a lot of talk about the way that municipalities are, are undermining efforts to support homeless people and drug users and won't, won't provide meeting spaces or that sort of thing or trying to shut down the meeting spaces. When when people are, are able to find something. 

Ben  34:14 

 Anyway in our own community, I guess as in all British Columbia and communities, we just had an election and the people in power have shifted somewhat and this last week, we just had the tent city in [bleeped] dismantled and because the tent city was on a private property where the landowner was actually sympathetic to the plight of the residents and wasn't in a hurry to move people on, they were, they were rather okay with letting people stay there, but the municipality started fining the owner of the land on a on a regular basis with substantial fees and they couldn't really continue to foot the bill for that. And beyond that the the new government has prioritised changing laws and regulations to make it possible to shut down this tent city, which it doesn't do, it's actually against the law.  

Ben  35:36 

As far as I understand the Supreme Court has made it illegal to dismantle these kind of encampments, when there's no housing for people to be moved on to. So forcing people off this particular piece of property only means that they are moved further away from sources of support or if they are in danger or something untoward happens to them, and then they're even that much further away from any source of help or emergency services. And this is really quite disappointing that the, the new government has made this a priority to the extent that substantial amount of the local paper last week was taken up by articles that relate to this whole process of undermining the rights or needs of people in this, this camp.  

Ben  36:42 

And also, I'm not sure of the details, but one of our allies in our, our more nearby town has, is has been running a recovery centre, which is badly needed, certainly, and was very difficult to get started in the first place. But they are very committed and have quite, a quite a lot of support, financially and otherwise, to make this happen, and they successfully started hosting several individuals to get away from their problematic substance use lifestyles for, in a focused sustainable way for some weeks or months. And from what I understand now, this, the new mayor is also at loggerheads, so to speak with the recovery centre management and the person that has been working with the CAT team from the local government is asking us to help mediate that situation.  

Ben  37:57 

So I need to find out more details about that. But it's quite disappointing. It was, it was really, it was surprising and inspiring, I suppose, that they were able to even open the doors for this place in the first place, given the challenges that they were facing to make that happen.  And I think it's really unconscionable that they would be shut down after all of the work they've put into creating quite a, quite a great facility. And I'm sure as I say, there's many more people that need that kind of support that are currently forced to go off coast or just wait endlessly for a spot to open up elsewhere. And it's a, you know, pretty small facility to begin with.  

Ben  38:55 

So it's not serving a whole lot of people, but at least a few individuals were able to get their needs met more, more comprehensively for some amount of time. I think it's it's very problematic to send people elsewhere to get support in this kind of way when they have no other place to return, return to then the positive impact of that is quite dubious when you have to, you know, you're taken out of your normal living context of your community and day to day life and sort of create an artificial opportunity to live a different lifestyle is facilitated for some limited amount of time and then you're put back in the earlier environment. 

Ben  39:54 

The positive benefits of that are, are questionable. I know A lot of people end up overdosing as their tolerance is reduced from having the, the experience of moving out of their local community but then they don't have ongoing support afterwards when they return back or sometimes they even lose their housing so they have more increased stress and increased risk of of succumbing to that kind of dangerous lifestyle or just the toxic drug supply. They're not as resistant to the, the poisonous content of the drugs if they've been off them for some weeks or months or whatever.  

Esther Cheung  40:53 

Yeah, that's really difficult. As we neared the end, we only have three more minutes. But yeah, this was, like, a heavy topic, so appreciate you speaking on it. And maybe we can come back to it next week? 

Lucas Akai  41:08 

Yep. 

Esther Cheung  41:08 

Yep.  

Ben  41:08 

Right on. 

Lucas Akai  41:08 

Alright, we'll see you next week. Alright.  

Ben  41:10 

Okay. 

Esther Cheung  41:10 

Alright. 

Esther Cheung  41:11 

Bye for now. 

Caitlin Burritt  41:13 

That brings us to the end of this episode of the Unsilencing Stories Podcast. To listen to more interviews in the series, please go to www.unsilencingstories.com. And if you'd like to share your thoughts on the episode, message us at unsilencingstories@gmail.com. Thank you for listening.