Caitlin Burritt  00:00 

Thank you for listening to the Unsilencing Stories Podcast. We are in the midst of a public health crisis. More than 32,000 people in Canada have died from fatal opioid overdoses since 2016, according to Health Canada. Previously, this podcast featured interviews with bereaved people in smaller towns and communities in BC and Alberta who have lost loved ones to fatal overdose. In this phase, we're sharing interviews with seven harm reduction workers also known as peers in different parts of BC.    

Caitlin Burritt  00:27 

The BC Centre for Disease Control Harm Reduction Services defines harm reduction as support services and strategies that aim to keep people safe and minimise death, disease and injury from high risk behaviour. Peers face a lot of challenges. This has been documented by many researchers including Zahra Mamdani and colleagues in BC. In their 2021 paper, they outline significant challenges peers face including financial struggles, difficulty finding housing and stressors at work. We wanted to explore these themes with peers and find out more about their experiences and share this information with the public. So we conducted multiple remote interviews with harm reduction workers and invited them to talk about the stressors they face. 

Caitlin Burritt  01:06 

Please note this podcast contains information about substance use overdose death, grief, trauma, and stressors that peers face and this may be distressing to listen to. The podcast is part of a research project led by Aaron Goodman, PhD faculty member at Kwantlen Polytechnic University in Surrey, BC, and conducted under the auspices of a grant known as the Chancellor's Chair Award. I'm Caitlin Burritt, a researcher with the project a number of researchers including Giorgia Ricciardi and Chloe Burritt, who happens to be my sister, and a number of students have played key roles in the study, and you'll hear many of their voices in this podcast.    

Caitlin Burritt  01:40 

In this interview, you'll hear Ryan Nielson talk to Thomas Chunyungco and Samantha Tsang about plans to bring in someone to train himself and the peers he works with about how to deal with trauma. He talks about how exposure to trauma in his past and through his work has changed him. Ryan also speaks about the challenges of working with familiar community members who are affected by the toxic opioid crisis, the importance of compassion and empathy and his work, and efforts to let new peers job shadow others with more experience before they start full time peer work. 

Thomas Chunyungco  02:10 

How do you manage critical stress or workplace trauma given the practice you are involved in? 

Ryan Nielsen  02:16 

Yeah, so for that right now, um, I've actually started something for my own peer outreach recently, last week, where we're doing, bringing someone else from Mindfully to kind of help us deal with trauma, since everyone we work with has pretty deep-rooted trauma. So kind of more, giving us some tips and stuff to be a little bit better. I can kind of speak before this training and stuff, for dealing with trauma, it was always about being very compassionate, kind of relating it to my own trauma, like when I was at it, and really trying to put myself in that spot again. 

Ryan Nielsen  02:57 

And for my own self, it took me like, I would say, like many years of my life, to kind of get to the point where I'm able to interact with other people's traumas. But even then, it's something that I, like, can be very sensitive at times where you're like, 'oh, right,' this, it kind of happens out of the blue, where you might think like, 'I have this under control'. And then working with someone brings up something, you're like, 'oh, wow, that that really like brings back a lot of memories' or flashbacks of the event, and kind of joins the past with it. But if that ever happens, in those cases, it's more, um, having like a debriefing at the end of the shift, or whatever I'm doing with, and talking with trained staff there, we're able to, in a safe environment, safe space, kind of go through the day, and what led up to these feelings, kind of talking it out, not having a right or wrong answer or not being, like, being able to show your emotion and stuff. 

Ryan Nielsen  03:55 

So those kinds of environments are really helpful for those situations. But when I'm actually with someone, and I'm helping them, even if I'm going through that, it's kind of still about, you know, I guess, catching my breath and stuff and being with the person, listening to them, not knowing what's right or wrong. And again, this is before my training and stuff. And kind of what I've learned now, and stuff, I guess, is about like trauma is there's like kind of three aspects to it. There's the event, experience of the event, and then the effect of the event, kind of realizing about people, which I kind of learned recently, and kind of [applies to] my own thing. But kind of being like in the trauma, it's hard to get out of it. So a lot of times like, people might be like, "Okay, why can't this person work through this?', or 'this happened years ago."

Ryan Nielsen  04:47 

And it's like, it's a hard thing, because you want to isolate all the time. And if you're in trauma, you don't want to be with people. But at the same time, you don't want to be there. At the same time, you don't want to isolate, but you do want to isolate almost at the same time, because it's too painful. To go outside of your wall, almost, it's like a, I would say like, it's like a wall almost, right? So you're like safe inside this wall. But you're also not safe inside this wall because you're with your thoughts, here with all this trauma and pain. And it's really hard to go out. But it's also hard to be in, so, really about meeting people with compassion, a tenderness, patience, and um, letting them kind of experience their emotions. 

Ryan Nielsen  05:29 

Yeah. It's, sometimes if I can, I'll ask if I can put my hand on them, or if that's right or not alright, and that they're kind of crying or not. Yeah, and I guess there's like a different type of trauma, I'm trying to think of what the name is. I think it's like, vicarious or something. But being around people with trauma all day, kind of almost, sometimes comes on you a little bi,t where you're like, so used to being around it all the time. That you almost kind of pick up a little bit of it yourself. I'm not sure the term of it yet. And I'm still kind of learning that. 

Thomas Chunyungco  06:01 

Due to the different experiences and environments you've been confronted in your career, do you feel that certain aspects of your personality or a sense of self have changed over the years? 

Ryan Nielsen  06:13 

Yeah, 100% like, yeah, like, I wouldn't say like, I'm like the same person at all. And a lot of the key personality traits I would have had are changed, I guess, or evolved over time. So like, one thing is, I was a really big people pleaser, I'm not sure like where that came from. But I did that a lot in my career. So especially one, like, kind of just starting off at other jobs, whether it's like Choices or some supermarket and being like, a assistant manager or whatever that is in those departments. I'd always kind of like, take shifts, always put myself last, so that means staying over time or not taking breaks, like, I would do that all the time. Lots of anxiety and just like really bad with self esteem, I guess. Confidence and all that, like, I just didn't know who I was, bent over to anyone trying to make them happy, like, that was kind of my sole purpose 

Ryan Nielsen  07:15 

and now I guess, like I would say I'm not, I maybe have a little bit of people pleasing but I worked on it so much where now I find I kind of know who I am, like, what I've gone through, all these experiences, let them accumulate so, I don't know, like, now I'm a lot, I like doing public speaking and those kinds of events and before I would never be able to do that. I was just too shy and I guess, like, an introvert and stuff and now I'm, I would say like, introvert with a little bit of an extrovert. Sorry, I'm like having a really hard words describe, like, characteristics now and how it's evolved but, hmm, I'm a little more compassionate, I would say, maybe determined, like, motivated and connected and yeah, that's changed a lot, I guess. 

Samantha Tsang  08:12 

Um, are you okay to share a few examples of how you've done things, like a before and after situation based on these changes? 

Ryan Nielsen  08:22 

Um, so like isolation, that would be something I used to do is like I would just kind of stay at home as much as I could, so even during school I prefer to choose online classes, have my camera off, mic off, that I would spend my time like either watching TV or something, but that was kind of like my life and there's like, that was it and let's say even go to work like, work I'd have a little bit of panic attack mostly, almost every time I had to go to work. So I'd sit there my room, hyperventilate, try to get my breath down, go to work, [like I] said people please put all this like persona on, like, almost masking, doing that. If I go to school, it'd be online, so again like, my mic's off, saying as little text or communication as possible.  

Ryan Nielsen  09:16 

Not going out for friends, again, staying in my house, just doing things that were really comfortable to me, I guess. And now after to that, I would say it's like I wake up, you know, go for my morning run. Do that, communicate with other people, always try to jump in for school for in person classes. If it's not, if it's an online class, have my camera on, have a mic on and be able to talk. Go for walks, do activities, so like, go bowling or something. Put myself out there. Be able to say no to people, have boundaries. Be like "hey, here's where my boundary is," [if] people cross it’s like, "hey, crossed my boundary," but still like, being, have like a compassionate piece to people. So I'd be like, "crossed my boundaries. But here's why. Here's how I feel in this aspect, I totally understand why you feel the way you do and it's totally valid" and this and that.

Ryan Nielsen  10:06 

And wouldn't do that before. Being in physical shape, there's no way I would have done that. Been too scared to go to the gym, or any of those things. So I can do that now. Hobbies that I like, so like playing guitar, not just sitting there all watching TV all day, like, I still do that in the evenings. But I would say it's like an hour or two. Right? Read. Yeah, I don't know, just going out. Like, I would say, like, my life is, like, transformed so much, completely, and it's is like, I'm trying to figure out how to word it. But like, it's, it's almost hard to, for me to like, look back and be like, that was me at one point. Because it's such a transformation. Like, it's, it's hard to, like, do that. It's weird. That's really, when I run into people who know me and stuff, they're like, they, they a lot of time, they have a hard time understanding it too. They're like, "wow," like "your transformation is so different." 

Ryan Nielsen  11:00 

Because there's something with people is like, we almost see ourselves everyday versus people [who] have seen us once, like, you know, five months ago, versus now, they get to see a lot of the transformation. And like, things, I'm kind of told, it's just like, I'm a lot, good at listening, able to, like, match people's conversations. So if they're talking about maybe more complex things, I can have my own valid opinion on it. And yeah, that's, sorry, that's one more thing is like, since I'm not people pleasing as much, now I'm having a lot of my own thoughts and my own ideas, and kind of being my own person now, which is interesting. And I guess, like, who I am now is like, I'm all those experiences I was before, but kind of over overcame them. 

Ryan Nielsen  11:39 

So like, I still have that aspect. But now I'm, I just want to make the world a better place and help people in need. So that's something I'm very passionate about, like to be happy and very simple  with things, right? So just enjoying nature, being more gratitude. So, you know, I'm happy I live in this, BC, Canada, where, you know, a lot of us have really good rights compared to anywhere else in the world and we can always kind of start off and that kind of thinking, I wouldn't have had before. It would always be like, you know, the world's done, we have COVID, we have, you know, the war that's going on? Like, why? Give up. And just kind of, because I'm more sensitive back then, like, those kinds of things have really impacted me more than they would now. Or I can maybe look at it and go "okay, yeah, that's a piece of information that's really hardcore or sad or upsetting, but I'm not going to let it interfere my entire day." Right? So something where I know it's going on, but I'm still gonna live my life. And yeah, sorry, for the tangent. 

Samantha Tsang  12:39 

Kind of rerouting this back towards work related? Would you say that you experience with your peers and colleagues, quite a bit of death? And how do you with your colleagues, kind of work around that, because death is quite impactful, regardless of who it is, and you know, your relationship with them? So having, like, have you had that experience? And what's kind of your guys' process to work through it? 

Ryan Nielsen  13:10 

Yeah, so we deal with that a lot. Especially with like, overdosing, it's very common for us to even work with people that we kind of, like I said, it's hard not to develop a connection to them if you work with them almost every day, and you get to know these people. And the sad reality is with the drug crisis, as they do pass away. So you get a call where it's like, you know, the guy that was really nice and cheerful, and he was about to do something, or he's about to go to treatment, maybe, next week, and then you're like, "Oh, he's gone." Right? And that also affects, like, affects me, obviously, but also affects the people I work with. Because they, um, they almost live together, or least  stick together, a lot of times too, right? So for them, that's devastating for them. And that is really, really, like I said, I guess really, what's the word? Tender, I guess that's a good word.  

Ryan Nielsen  14:05 

Yeah, being really tender when you approach these situations, because there is a lot of emotions, a lot of the time, they're crying, and they're very upset. And they're looking for support. So that's really about listening a lot of the time too, right? It's like, you don't want to talk over them when they're having a moment and stuff. It's really about letting them have the moment, being there with them, let, letting them know that they can talk and if they have, they want to say something they can, but for them to kind of go through it at their own time. I'll try [to]. I'll think of a scenario, like, even last week, so there's a person I work with and her best friend passed away or something, like, a day before that. So she was very upset. She was not acting her normal self. So right away, I'm like, “Okay.” She told me a little bit about it. She was very emotional.  

Ryan Nielsen  14:06 

We were trying to go through a trauma counseling, actually. So it was a perfect day for it. And like, we're just starting off just introductions or names and stuff. And then they called her name. And that was all it took for her to have a breakdown, like that was it, she started crying. And we just kind of like sat, like, was with her. And I was just, it's like a learning experience for me too. So like, I'm, I still don't have this perfected. But like, I was curious. I was like, do I like look at her? Do I not look at her? Because there's other people in here? Like, would that be too much? If everyone's like, looking at you, right? Like when you're having a crying thing? So maybe just, like, do I look on the ground? Or does she want me to look at her. So those kinds of things where that particular situation, I just kind of like looked on the ground a little bit, up, like occasionally would give her a little glance and stuff. But she did that. And then she went to the bathroom. 

Ryan Nielsen  15:02 

And we had one of our trained staff there, who was a female, because I can't go in there. She went in there with her, talked to her with her out, I guess just let her vent and kind of let her hear what was causing it. But it's about being patient, right? So it's not about forcing them to say something or tell you what's going on. It's letting them kind of go at their own pace, whether they say something or don't say something, if they don't say anything, you let it go, right? But if they decide to say something, it's about listening to them, and really trying to hear like, they're, it's almost like empathize or you really want to empathize and hear what they're why they're feeling the way they're feeling without telling them what's wrong or right or just, it's like being there with them, if that makes sense. And I don't know how to explain it, like, super good. But like, yeah, "it's okay to feel that emotion. Or I would feel that way too. Like that's a lot to go through." And when she came out, we kind of finished the session. 

Ryan Nielsen  16:45 

And then afterwards, she wanted to talk to me after everyone left. And I just sat there and it's same thing. I just like, empathized with her. Let her tell me what was going on. And I said, like, "that's a lot to go through. Makes sense, Like, you had this person in your life for so long, right? And that's totally acceptable, normal [to] have those kind of emotions" and that helped her a lot. And she told me that just like how helpful it was for having someone actually care and how, like, foreign that was for her, I guess. Even when someone asked her her name, she was just so like, taken aback that someone wanted to call her name, and like, someone actually asked her what was going on. And then she was able to explain that she lost someone, like, two days before that happened. So that's kind of what happened, I guess, for that scenario. But that happens quite a lot. I would say like, once or twice every month or two, we have someone pass away, or we refer to someone who passed away from someone. 

Samantha Tsang  17:45 

Does that ever affect your willingness to go into work, having to face such heavy things?  

Ryan Nielsen  17:54 

Um, um, not really anymore. But it did like differ a little bit, though. Yeah, um, because it was just like, so intense. Like, I would go home and like, especially with some of the later shifts and I'd be like, how am I going to go to bed right now and get up for school the next day, or when I've just had this happen like at 11:15 at night, and it's like, "Okay, what?" I'm gonna go home and be like, "yeah, that was normal." Turn off the bed, like, you know, turn off the lights and go bed. It's like, no. So for me, that was really about, I guess, just working through it. 

Ryan Nielsen  18:25 

And getting more extra support when I needed it. Learning some more methods like, like, I'm still doing training right now, I usually do training. Every week, I'm just kind of like, things that counselors use and all that kind of things and supports and taking care of your own mental health. And I found that really beneficial recently. And also maybe that I do get used to it, I don't know. But it's like, I've gotten to the point now where like, it doesn't impact me as much. It still does, but not to the point where it's like interfering with my work or anything. And I still get more benefit doing this job than I would, those those negative things, I guess, I would say they're very small compared to the benefits I receive now. 

Thomas Chunyungco  19:06 

Do you think you received enough training to face these challenges that you've talked about? 

Ryan Nielsen  19:14 

Yes, I think I've received a good amount of training now. But think when I first started it, I could have used a lot more training and support. Part of it might be that it was ,like, it's a new program. And White Rock, South Surrey is like, they haven't had this before. So it's a learning experience, right? Everyone's kind of learning. And a lot of the times too, they didn't maybe have the funding or support to have this kind of training in place. But like now we do, we're able to do training for everyone where it's not just for staff but also for the people we support and help, so, because they are around it all the time. So having these kind of training things might be really beneficial for them, the long term way. 

Thomas Chunyungco  19:56 

What are your some of your major strengths that allow you to face these challenges? 

Ryan Nielsen  20:01 

I think, like, one is like the ability to listen. Like I, I've always found, like been pretty good at that, is being able to listen and like, I'm trying to describe, it's not like you're them, but actually listen to them. So like, when they talk, I really listen to everything they're saying, and able to remember it as well. And like, that's a really important skill, because they're talking about really sensitive or hard topics to talk about. And one is like, sometimes people get really distracted, or they're looking on the phone, even if it's not a hard topic, just something like, you know, "today, I went to the store and did this and that," and then I mean, I'm sure you guys experienced that, too, when you're talking to someone, right? You're like, "Oh, what?", like, they're distracted and not doing that. So having that is really important. 

Ryan Nielsen  20:45 

And I know, I get told that a lot by people. They're like, "wow, like, I really feel like we can listen to you or confide in you." And the second thing, I guess, is like the people skills, like I'm really good at, like working with any type of person, whether it's someone, like, that people would say that are really offensive, like, "wow, this person lies and does all these things. And like nobody gets along with this person." But I'm still able to get along with that person. And really not letting I don't know, like, my personal beliefs and stuff get in it. I think that's hard for a lot of people sometimes where if they have a certain political view or something and someone else has the opposite, or whatever. It's like, "okay, I'm not gonna listen to that person, because they're offending me or this and that," and I'm able to, like, really kind of sit there and empathize, is like, "okay, yeah, they have a different view, maybe that I don't agree with" or I think is, whatever. But I can agree with how, with how they think the reason or not, I can agree with why they think that, right? 

Ryan Nielsen  21:43 

Because it's like, they have some kind of passion, right? They, it might be a different view. But there's something that they're saying in there, that I can be like, "yeah," that is, I can relate to that, "I can understand why you feel that passionate, or that strong about it." And I think that's a really important skill that I haven't noticed a lot of people can do, sometimes, where they get, they will have to say their opinion or not. And they'll sit there and empathize. And so like, compassion, empathy, listening, I guess, like being mindful, that's really helpful, right? Really being able to be in the present, like, I guess a little bit of focus and stuff, being attentive, awareness. And I think that's it. 

Samantha Tsang  22:23 

Going back to that training, that if you were to run a new program, or had a new program, what kind of training implementations would you put in place to kind of ensure that new staff won't face the same problems that you did at the beginning? 

Ryan Nielsen  22:42 

Um, so like, we do have a couple new things going on anyway. And so like, the first thing, or the same thing is, like, I'm trying to get more support staff in there. So that would be actual trained counselors from our Sources Program to be kind of with us on some of these new shifts and programs. Having some CPI training, they call it. So that's like non-violent crisis intervention training for people as well. So they're able to know how to, I guess, like, deal with crisis interventions, right? So like, you know, when people are becoming agitated, or aggressive, or more sensitive to trauma happening, like, all those kind of trainings we're doing right now, for all new employees. So like, instead of, for me, just being kind of thrown in there, it's like, alright, they're able to slowly introduce themselves, they have to think of that word but, like, you know, when you start a new job, and you like, follow that person, almost like you're not, not working yet, but you're learning -- 

Samantha Tsang  23:42 

Uh, job shadowing? 

Ryan Nielsen  23:42 

from that person to do it. Yeah, job shadowing. So we do that now. Where people can kind of job shadow and see what it's like, not being thrown into it, having those trained staff, they're available. So especially at the end of shifts, people need to, like, the de-wind or during the shift, if they find that there's something that's too intense or too hard, they're able to go back into, to one of the safe spaces in the back, where it's just them and the trained staff, and they can talk about what they're experiencing, or if they just want support, or that's it kind of, so I had been doing that as well. And then do more of the training programs. 

Ryan Nielsen  24:22 

And I think that's more important than, or more important, putting some of the funding and budget into that than it is doing more programs, because it's really important for people to be able to be healthy and it kind of defeats our purpose if our whole purpose is to help people feel supported, empowered and live a better life. So that's, you know, that's our whole goal is not even initially getting people off substances, but just for them to live the best version of their lives, right?

Ryan Nielsen  24:48 

And whatever that means it takes, and so yeah, it's really about doing those training programs and like, we have another one tomorrow. And like, same thing, where we're going to learn more and more about trauma, how to recognize people in distress, like even early signs of it, being able to be there and support them with that, and just educating people, I guess, on some of the things, right? Like isolation is painful for people, like, that's something that everyone kind of knows is like, "Alright, when I'm isolating, I'm in pain," or "I'm doing these kinds of things, behaviors, and I can maybe recognize it and get in touch with people." And then the last thing I'm trying to do is, because we have a bunch of those counselors and support services, we're trying to connect all the programs. So trying to give a lot more rep referrals and references to those people. 

Samantha Tsang  25:35 

Thomas, do you have any other questions you'd like to tack on to this? Or redirect? 

Thomas Chunyungco  25:39 

Yeah. Are there times when you have shut or blocked your emotions to deal with the situation at hand? 

Ryan Nielsen  25:48 

Yes, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, there's, there's like I said, when, when people are really in distress, or they're really having a crisis, and they might bring up something that's like, it's important to me, or it's something that I've had to overcome. It's really about like, for me to not let my emotions interfere with the people I'm trying to help. So in those situations, like, I will do that, yeah, I'll definitely, um, shut them off, and help the person that's in need, and I'll take care of my emotions, maybe at the end of the shift or when I can.

Thomas Chunyungco  26:23 

How do you think that [has] affected your mental health?  

Ryan Nielsen  26:27 

Um, like, it's probably not good, like, at least realistically, it's not good. But um, I just really tried to take care of my mental health in other ways, I guess. So if I can't do it in that situation, it's really about carving out time for me doing things that can de-wind, being healthy, right? So like, I'm really big believer in physical and mental health, you can't just have one or the other. So it's important for me to, like, do cardio and you know, jog, go for walks and all that, but it's also good for my mental health to do meditations, debriefings. Sitting with my thoughts, doing like a little bit of CBT, sometimes, like trying to do that. And then hardcore emotions, I can always kind of reach out to one of my counselors I have if they're kind of, like on-call, pretty rare, but like, if I do need that, I can call them and get support that way. 

Ryan Nielsen  27:22 

Yeah, I think, um, before though, like, I used to do that a lot in it. It's really bad to get to burnouts or something. I don't know. Even my early recovery is like, when I used to do this, it would not work really well, because it's like, wasn't at that point. So when you like, numb your emotions, or you shut off your emotions, you don't let them do it. That's just, like, a lot more problems will kind of come that way, I would say, because then you're bottling up, right? You're not. It's like, it's going to explode eventually. You can't just sit there and be like, I don't have emotions. They're on the, you know, backburner, not going to feel anything. You know. So. 

Thomas Chunyungco  28:00 

Does death and trauma affect the way you think about work now? 

Ryan Nielsen  28:03 

I guess that just, it's like, very common and part of life. Wouldn't say it's like, all the time, but a lot of the people I work with all have trauma, are all experiencing trauma, or on, ongoing trauma or death. So I guess, like, it might sound a little harsh and stuff, but like, it's kind of like for me, with the work I do. It's almost like a part of life now, where maybe it's not as traumatic or, like rare, because I deal with it so frequently now, where it's like, part of life, I guess. Where like, I see it for what it is, like, it's, you know, yes, you have a lot of people pass away, and it's still very disappointing. But that's kind of the whole point of my programs, and doing the work I do is to try to reduce the number, or help the people that do or save the lives that we can save, right? 

Ryan Nielsen  28:52 

So it's, um, it's hard work sometimes, right? It's like, but it's, there's only so much I can control and there's not so much I can do at the end of the day, right? But I guess, like, also, just like, learning that a lot of the people that we have, do have these traumas, traumas, and they're not, maybe... They're not doing it for fun and stuff. Like that's, I think, a big conception that I've, I've made since I've, maybe I was like, younger, but like, people are all kind of doing it, because they choose to do it. Or they can stop anytime or all this thing. And kind of getting, like, this new perspective change where I'm like, everybody's humans, I don't think, I don't think nobody wakes up and is like, "oh, I want to become an addict," or "I'm going to be homeless" or do all these things. 

Ryan Nielsen  29:38 

It's, you hear about some of these traumas from people, right? Even like, early on, and it's like, they really didn't know any better. They're like a 14 year old with mom and dad addicted to drugs, right? Lots of violence, abuse, sexual abuse and like, it makes sense. Because if that's all you grew up with around, that's all you know, right? It's like you want to survive and stuff. And so... It's when, and how powerful and addictive drugs are very, it's like, you get trapped in that cycle very easily and being, it's kind of weird, but it's like, being in that homeless thing, it's almost like produces more trauma, a lot of the time, right? Because they're in this very unsafe conditions, they have things stolen from them. 

Ryan Nielsen  30:18 

They… Also violence, right, or sexual abuse continually, or they will sell their bodies for drugs or money. And so it's like, they already have trauma and stuff and they're in an environment that continually gets worse and worse and worse with it. So it's very sad, I guess, like, it's sad, but also, like, knowing that that goes on, gives me a better lens of how to better help the people I do work with. 

Thomas Chunyungco  30:49 

What kind of support do you need that you don't have access to at work? 

Ryan Nielsen  30:55 

Yeah, this is kind of weird, but like, to actually have one of their substance use counselors, they have there. It's, it's like, free. I used them actually, when I was in my addiction about three years ago. And then, like, I guess, since I did a lot better and stuff, I remember, they were saying, like, "you're doing like too good to the point where you can't use our services anymore." Like, "you need to use it for people that actually need it," which makes sense, right? Like, it's a free service. So you're gonna have a lot of people wanting to use it. But I, I would find that very helpful. Still, right now, there, there's still times where, like, I'm human, right? We're all human, there's gonna be rough patches, or something might be going on with my family and work and just having somewhere where I can be like, "hey, I want to talk to a counselor that is experienced with addiction and recovery."

Ryan Nielsen  31:44 

So they know that like, I was in recovery, and I do have these thoughts or feelings. And still, even if they're under control, and that  would be really helpful, but I think it's down to, we don't have enough people, don't have enough funding. And for the people that we do have, we need to, they need it more than I do. But if I do want to get counseling, like I do, now, I have to pay like $100 per session, right? So it's like, I'm gonna make it really more limited, like, once every couple months if I, if I need it or not. And that person isn't trained with substance use, either, right? So they're gonna give me different feedback and help than I would get from one of the Sources, substance use counselors. 

Samantha Tsang  32:26 

Maybe we'll head into an open-mic type of section here? Ryan, is there anything you'd like to mention or speak on that we haven't already asked you? 

Ryan Nielsen  32:39 

Um, I guess maybe, like, I just said, maybe how, like I work through some of the trauma I had, and stuff. So yeah, I guess like for me, and like, overcoming a lot of this stuff. I'm not sure if it's related or not. But it's like, first, like acknowledging the event with someone, like in counseling. So like, that's kind of where I got most of my stuff was, like, therapists and stuff. So kind of seeing them, I would say, like, once or twice a week, kind of, it's almost weird, but like, having an acceptance of the event is like, the hardest point to get through. But like, you can do smaller steps to get there. It takes a lot of time. Patience, I think is like being really easy on yourself and compassionate of yourself and giving yourself time and really trying to get to that point where you accept it. And I guess, and yeah, I guess just being really healthy. Really taking care of your, your mental health, your physical health and taking your time with, over talking with someone that you really trust and care. And they can kind of give you a little bit [of]feedback to help you kind of get to the acceptance point. And then once you're at the acceptance point, you can kind of, it helps a lot because it's like, it's no longer good or bad. You just know that it happened, right? You're like, “oh, yeah, this is, I don't like what happened or I don't think it was okay. But I know that it happened and I can kind of move on with my life" and other aspects. And now, I don't know that's kind of where I'm at right now. 

Caitlin Burritt  33:55 

That brings us to the end of this episode of the Unsilencing Stories Podcast, to listen to more interviews in the series, please go to www.unsilencingstories.com. And if you'd like to share your thoughts on the episode message us at unsilencingstories@gmail.com Thank you for listening.