Unsilencing Stories

Taija McLuckie: Episode 7: Stigma & Treatment

Unsilencing Stories Season 2 Episode 16

In this episode, Taija McLuckie tells Caitlin Burritt about her experience in treatment centres and problems within the treatment system. She also discusses the role that stigma plays in recovery, the importance of including peers in the recovery process, and her early work as a peer worker.

Glossary:

Brave COOP:  The cooperative of people responsible for creating the Brave Sensor
Brave Sensor: An Overdose Detection tool for public bathrooms
CAT: Community Action Team
Decriminalization: A three year pilot project which began on January 31, 2023,which exempts adults carrying small amounts of illicit drugs from being subject to arrest or criminal charges.
Downtown Eastside: The Downtown Eastside is a neighbourhood in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada, known for having a large unhoused population, many of whom are affected by substance use disorder.
Mobile Response Team: An outreach team in Taija’s community, created to support frontline workers during the Opioid Crisis
Moms Stop The Harm: A network of Canadian families impacted by substance-use-related harms and deaths, which advocates to end substance use related stigma, harms and death.
NA: Narcotics Anonymous 
Naloxone: A medicine that rapidly reverses an opioid overdose.
OAT: Opioid agonist therapy
VIHA: Vancouver Island Health Authority (also referred to as Island Health)

This episode was recorded on December 5, 2022.

Caitlin Burritt  00:02 

Thank you for listening to the Unsilencing Stories Podcast. We are in the midst of a public health crisis. More than 32,000 people in Canada have died from fatal opioid overdoses since 2016, according to Health Canada. Previously, this podcast featured interviews with bereaved people in smaller towns and communities in BC and Alberta who have lost loved ones to fatal overdose. In this phase, we're sharing interviews with seven harm reduction workers also known as peers in different parts of BC.     

 

Caitlin Burritt  00:29 

The BC Centre for Disease Control Harm Reduction Services defines harm reduction as support services and strategies that aim to keep people safe and minimise death, disease and injury from high risk behaviour. Peers face a lot of challenges. This has been documented by many researchers including Zahra Mamdani and colleagues in BC. In their 2021 paper, they outlined significant challenges peers face including financial struggles, difficulty finding housing, and stressors at work. We wanted to explore these themes with peers and find out more about their experiences and share this information with the public. So we conducted multiple remote interviews with harm reduction workers and invited them to talk about the stressors they face.   

 

Caitlin Burritt  01:08 

Please note this podcast contains information about substance use, overdose, death, grief, trauma, and stressors that peers face and this may be distressing to listen to. The podcast is part of a research project led by Aaron Goodman, PhD, faculty member at Kwantlen Polytechnic University in Surrey, BC, and conducted under the auspices of a grant known as the Chancellor's chair award. I'm Caitlin Burritt, a researcher with the project. A number of researchers including Giorgia Ricciardi and Chloe Burritt, who happens to be my sister, and a number of students have played key roles in the study and you'll hear many of their voices in this podcast.   

  

 

Caitlin Burritt  01:42 

In this episode, Taija McLuckie tells Caitlin Burritt about her experience in treatment centres and problems within the treatment system. She also discusses the role that stigma plays in recovery, the importance of including peers in the recovery process, and her early work as a peer worker. 

 

Caitlin Burritt  01:56 

Do any of have those options appeal to you more than another? 

 

Taija McLuckie  02:01 

I was thinking what it is like on someone's like journey to become a peer worker, and just even how impossible it can be for someone to access services or, like our treatment system. In light of my, my mom, one of her friends, her son was given respite from the centre that he was at. Which sometimes, depending on the circumstances, staffing and a whole bunch of things, they can ask someone to leave, given a safety plan, sometimes there's no safety plan, it just depends on like, what the, where the institution is, how they run it, but yeah, they will give someone some reprieve from the place that they're staying. So they gave him reprieve.  

 

Taija McLuckie  03:02 

My mom's friend who's, his dad picked him up. And he was going to be home, like, just for the weekend. And everything was going well, they went to, like, a hockey game. And then that night, I guess, he said to his dad, 'I just, I don't want to be this way anymore.' And they said goodnight, and when my mom's friend woke up in the morning, went to check on her son and he had died. So at some point, he used. Yeah, I just think of like that, the journey to get where I am, and how lucky I am I didn't die. That just. like, adds to the stigma.  

 

Caitlin Burritt  03:51 

How do you feel knowing that, that the the chances were not necessarily in your favour or that there's so many stories like the one you were just mentioning that it went a completely different direction and that it can be the whim of the type of support that was accessible?  

 

Taija McLuckie  04:11 

Oh, I feel frustrated that there is this message and stigma that wants people to figure it out on their own, because they got themselves into that position. And then the system that is provided to get better, also decides and makes up whatever rules they want without consulting peers, I find it frustrating. They want us to do it alone, but make the system lonely and impossible. And yeah, you just go from one stigmatised setting to another.  

 

Taija McLuckie  04:59 

It makes me feel lucky that I stopped, or was able to stop misusing substances before it got to where it is now. Because it's just another, like, layer added on. Like, oh, you know, people say like, 'he was in a treatment centre, and well, maybe he shouldn't have or maybe he should have.' It's just something that's going to be put back on him, which is bullshit. Because if you're in, you're surrounded by a place of professionals, I mean, we gotta start approaching this from like, a peer-led way.  

 

Caitlin Burritt  05:38 

Yeah, well, I think also, in the very first interview that we did, you spoke about basically, the difference that it made for you just finding a treatment that wasn't a totally abstinence-only based one and that was more supportive. Is this one of the things that you would say should be a starting point for most places? Because I think you have said it, it really helped you feel less shame going through the process. 

 

Taija McLuckie  06:08 

I went to a few different treatment centres. The first place I went was a recovery house, that was like a faith-based, kind of like a second stage. And I had gotten there, because a family member of my, her friend went through this house and, and she worked there. So they were able to get me in, like, just on a shorter notice. And which is also another messed up part of the system is like, not what you know, it's who you know, so I went there. I was there for a month and had to leave early since my son's dad was very sick, and my kids were babies. So just my life circumstances, I had to go home. And we attended NA meetings at this halfway house, and it was an abstinence-based place. And I was, I didn't use any substances for almost two years. And then for my, like, chronic pain, I started using opiates again.  

 

Taija McLuckie  07:14 

The next place that I went to, was, I went to a detox centre, that it cost me $15,000 just to walk in the front door and that was for the first 30 days. And this centre has agreements with governments from the Northwest Territories to like fully fund them. So there's priority for people who are from there. I was assaulted on my 30th day, I was sitting on the couch with a counsellor. And because of, because of an argument that happened earlier with this person, that then she came in, she attacked me. I didn't hit her back, I like pulled myself in because all I could think was like, "Don't do it," like "don't get kicked out, don't get kicked out." And I also asked to call the RCMP, they wouldn't allow me to and then they kicked me out the next morning.  

 

Taija McLuckie  08:25 

This person that, who I was assaulted by, was from the Northwest Territories and there's like priority just taking, just because of where the funding comes from. So, I mean, you absolutely have situations like that. They also charged me like 900 something dollars for an early discharge fee, like admin fee. And then I went to a treatment centre on the mainland, and that was a 12-step centre and so we went to NA meetings, we had to attend a meeting every day. I mean, NA was all I knew then. I didn't really, like, know that there was any other, like, harm reduction options. I knew that either, like, you've never used again, or you fucked up. And once I completed that programme, I had to complete the 90 days in order to get my children back. It was like part of our agreement and that's when I just started getting involved in like, like the [community] action team and I, that's where like everything changed for me. I was just like opened up to this world of connection and understanding, safety, peer, like other peer workers.  

 

Taija McLuckie  09:52 

I yeah, I felt valued. I never felt valued in 12-steps. And that is just my experience too. There are people that, I mean there's still people that I'm friends with from that process, we're just not on the same programme.  

 

Caitlin Burritt  10:07 

Yeah, well, I think you brought up multiple points in those stories that are issues within the system of treatment in itself, of very high in some cases, fees to access the support, which I imagine, is very stressful to deal with. And then also environments where you're very beholden to the treatment centre -- 

 

Taija McLuckie  10:35 

mhmm --

 

Caitlin Burritt  10:35 

itself. 

 

Taija McLuckie  10:37 

And then you get kicked out for behaviours that you came in with, and were accepted with, like, the story where I was attacked. The argument that happened earlier, like, I'm not innocent in that story. And part of, part of my like, being super small is my way of feeling safe was being very loud, in the not very great way. And so yeah, there was this dislike between me and this person. And I didn't know how to react in any differently at that time, I just knew someone didn't like me, would say mean things to me and then I would say mean things to them. And, and, and it's not that I didn't go for help, or didn't, we ended up actually in the office of the Director of that centre because I was like, 'I'm gonna lose my mind.'

 

Taija McLuckie  11:40 

And it was basically, we're just told to, like, you know, stay away from each other, understand that everyone comes from like, a different place. So, yeah, I remember my mom talking to me after when I called her and I was devastated. Because I mean, I had to sell my house to pay for treatment. And, again, not, most people aren't in that situation, where they have a home to sell. And I sold my house to pay for it. And I was just so ashamed. My little brother had to come and pick me up.  

 

Taija McLuckie  12:14 

And I just immediately thought, like, no one's gonna believe me when I say that, you know, I didn't hit her back, or that I wasn't at that moment, you know, hours later, when I was sitting on the couch with this counsellor when she ran up and attacked me. And so you know, who's going to? Who are they going to believe? They're just going to be like, 'oh, yeah, right. I bet you did,' like, it always gets put back on someone. So yeah, getting kicked out for shit that I was asking for help with. 

 

Caitlin Burritt  12:51 

Did they offer any other type of support in that situation? 

 

Taija McLuckie  12:56 

No, I asked, once that, like, it took a couple people to get her off of me. And then we were, we were separated into like different buildings. There's a separate building for second stages who graduate the programme, but then stay within the treatment. And it just, they allow more freedom, I guess, in that second stage so, I actually got put down to go stay at like the second stage housing for the night. I'm not sure where she stayed. And then I was woken up at eight o'clock in the morning, being told that I'm removed from the programme, and that I needed to stay in that second stage building until my family arrived to pick me up. And this, was again, after I had already asked to call the RCMP. But yeah, they just refused. They said that they're not going to do, so we're not going to call. 

 

Caitlin Burritt  14:00 

Yeah, as you said, really, really putting it onto you, the whole situation --

 

Taija McLuckie  14:09 

and then telling me that like I'm not, the assault that happened to me, isn't like worth pursuing. It's just being, you know, at the bottom again. 

 

Caitlin Burritt  14:22 

Yeah. And too, the way you described it, of knowing that you couldn't react because you already were anticipating that being kicked out of the programme was an option, I'm sure then to have it, even though you did hold yourself back from reacting, to have it happen anyway must have been a very disheartening feeling. 

 

Taija McLuckie  14:43 

I just couldn't. I on, I really didn't believe that I was going to be kicked out because in that moment, like I, I just didn't do anything. I didn't fight back. I didn't try. I just like sat there and it was like, like just getting wailed on. And so I really did not think that I was going to be removed, maybe, like put on more restrictions, not like we were allowed to go anywhere and do anything anyways, but maybe have some slight consequence for provoking from early on the day.  

 

Taija McLuckie  15:22 

Yeah, I didn't think I was gonna get kicked out. But there is like, the treatment system is, they're not in it to treat people, not that people who work there don't want people to get better. So I'm just saying, like, the treatment system as a whole, it's a business. It's like healthcare, there's no money in an entire society that's healthy. Hospitals are businesses. But there's really great people that work in hospitals who truly want, you know, people to get better, but that's not why it's designed.  

 

Caitlin Burritt  16:02 

Yeah, well, I think your, again, your example of the cost to get through the door. And that also, in your I believe, first treatment, that you tried that it was a connection, that you knew someone who knew someone that helped, it just makes you think of people who don't know anybody or they don't have the funds. The options, I would imagine, shrink even more. 

 

Taija McLuckie  16:27 

I can't remember how many beds have, that they added this year, that the government, government-funded beds. But it was a very insignificant number, and it's due to the treatment system, like, it's just, it's business. They're not in it to get, to wait for government funding. The people that invest? Yeah, just want to make sure that, like, that distinction is there because I've had some incredible support through treatments and people that have worked in that system and so I definitely don't want to discredit them for working where they work.  

 

Caitlin Burritt  17:14 

No, I think it's I think it's coming across clearly that it's, it's more of a systemic and governmental and, as you say, the business aspects of something that maybe shouldn't be super business-y, but has got to that point. It's so, throwing a question of how do you fix the whole treatment centre at you, is so much to to ask of one person, but do you think maybe a starting point would be to try and make sure that there are peers involved in, in multiple types of treatments? Are there some that are more peer-run than government-run, for example? 

 

Taija McLuckie  17:57 

I went to one, like, the last one that I went to, where I completed their programme. Anyone that was, that had worked there had, was actually like, had gone through that programme. So they had gone through that treatment centre, and then ended up becoming like peer support workers, even the clinical counsellors were, they had gone through that programme as well. And that's what I, there was trust in that. And I think that had a lot to do with when I was, you know, faced with like, some growth and some things that I didn't necessarily want to do and didn't like, what I was being told or how I had to do something. If it, I don't think that, if it was not a peer that had gone through this programme already, I probably would have not listened. But I just I knew that that person went through this and was successful in it, and now employed in it. And so there's got to be something to what they're saying. Even if I like didn't agree, I think that was a huge part of why I graduated their programme.  

 

Taija McLuckie  19:09 

So yeah, in big fancy centres, that would be much more, in my opinion, more helpful. And if we could, we didn't, if there wasn't this idea that like, drugs are bad and that bad people do drugs and like all the stigma that surrounds substance use, if that would, if that narrative would change and I think it slowly is, then we wouldn't need so many treatment centres. We wouldn't need so much government funding for minimal amount of beds.  

 

Caitlin Burritt  19:48 

Yeah, do you think or I guess in your experience, did being able to interact with peers and get support from peers during your treatment? Did it help lessen the feeling of that stigma for you, that there were people who had substance pasts that were just present in, in helping other people? Did that feel very different than the other places that you had been? 

 

Taija McLuckie  20:18 

Do you mean, did I feel less stigmatised, like, going to a centre that had peer workers?  

 

Caitlin Burritt  20:24 

Yes, I think that's a very much more succinct way of, of getting to my point. Yes. 

 

Taija McLuckie  20:29 

I just wanted to make sure I understood. 

 

Taija McLuckie  20:32 

Yeah, I, I've, we have, because we had to go to all these meetings, we also like didn't, were not allowed cars. And so we had to walk to meeting in groups. And when you're in a group of like, 30 women that are, like walking into the same meeting, I hated that. I felt quite ashamed. I felt like I was doing this walk that was like, I can't be trusted alone, which is, then I couldn't, like, for sure. But I kind of felt like it was this parade of drug addicts, going to these meetings and then all the [looking at the] same time. And, you know, we're like, you know, like, this far away from having to hold each other's hands when we walked across the street, like, you know, preschool kids going to the park, so that I didn't like. I understand why that, that whole walk is in place, and we'd have to go in these groups, but it still sucked. Yeah, just a big scarlet letter? Yeah, so it wasn't a perfect system. But I sure did appreciate that the people who were working there were evidence of, that it does work to have peers support you, no matter what type of treatment that you're seeking or way of life that you live. I think having a peer is the most valuable thing you could do. 

 

Caitlin Burritt  22:14 

And is that, I guess, seeing that in the situation, the peers were people who had accessed the, the treatment programme, is that when for you the thought of maybe going into the harm reduction world, is that when that came about for you, had you ever thought about it before?  

 

Taija McLuckie  22:33 

I wasn't introduced to harm reduction until, until after I completed that last programme. I didn't even know what it, what it was. And, um sorry, can you ask me that again? [indiscernable] 

 

Caitlin Burritt  22:51 

Yes, of course. Basically of, just did, did being around peers and seeing them work within the, the treatment process that they had been part of, did that make you think, 'oh, that's something that I could do' or? 

 

Taija McLuckie  23:06 

Right, yeah. Okay. So I think indirectly, for sure. I, again, like I didn't know what harm reduction was, but when I left treatment, I, I knew that I could not sustain the 12-step model. I didn't know why, I just always was, like, this is. It never felt right. It never felt like home. It didn't, I would hear. I mean, people who take, like, and opiate agonist therapy, if, if someone is on like Methadone or Suboxone, they actually are not supposed to take any clean time, like, that's a--clean, I hate that word. That's, like, a rule. If you're on a medication that replaces the opiate that you were using, and you're stable, like, it's not a misuse, it's just a medication they're taking every day, they're actually not allowed to take, like six months, nine months, a year, because they're not considered clean.  

 

Taija McLuckie  23:08 

So like, shit like that would just piss me off and yeah, just was unfair. So I, there was just a, like, a lot of little things like that, that really deterred me from it. And then I, I've always been a helper and a giver. So that's, that's kind of where I found myself, like, I know I want to help. And I know I want to be a part of someone else's journey. And because I think I have a lot to offer. And it just wasn't meant to be in the 12-steps. But knowing that, like, having a peer there, like as an example as to like,' oh, there is work in, in this as a peer.' Yeah. So indirectly, kind of brought me on my path. 

 

Caitlin Burritt  24:58 

And how was the process of learning to be a peer? Was that? I mean, that's another big, big question. 

 

Taija McLuckie  25:06 

Well, I was just thinking of choices that I made along the way that my very first coordinator, she just, sometimes she'd be like, 'No, you did what?' And I, I learned a few things the hard way for sure. Like, boundaries and, and what not to do. I took, like, a crash course in that, a couple of times. All very well intended. But yeah, yeah, like there, I just came off like, my third night shift and I was exhausted, and one of the participants had, at the supportive housing that I was working at, his, his friend's car battery died. And so he asked, came to the staff, and I'm like, just getting off the shift and I'm like, holding my eyes open. And he was like, 'Hey, can I use one of your cars to jumpstart my friend's, like, his, his battery won't start.' And me thinking, like, I just for whatever reason, assumed that his friend's car was right beside mine. I don't know why I thought that, like, no sleep, makes you think irrationally. And I just was like, "yeah, no problem," and I handed him my car keys and about 30 seconds later, my coordinator, she comes in, she was like, 'who's in your car?' 

 

Taija McLuckie  26:41 

 And he took my car, just moved it to the other side of the parking lot where his friend's car was. And I immediately was like, 'oh, yeah, I, I fucked up there,' that, like I should've thought that through. And he did what he said, he went beside his friend's car and jump started the car. And my coordinator was like, 'Yeah, we, we don't give people our keys, like, ever.' Which makes a lot of sense after the fact. Like, oh okay, yeah. Totally makes sense. But in the moment, it was like, I know this participant, I know them quite well. I just didn't want my alarm to go off. I don't know. I could like justify it all I want. But like, yeah, boundaries crossed. So. But yeah, that's part of being a peer is learning boundaries. And hopefully, you're supported through them and not punished. Thankfully, I was.  

 

Caitlin Burritt  27:47 

Yeah, well, I was gonna say of at least in that situation, it sounds like your supervisor was maybe a bit surprised, but that they were supportive in the end. Do you feel like the, that type of support that you get from peers, even when you're training to learn the skills, was that very different for you in terms of how you were treated as someone who had a substance use past and was trying to get employment and things like that? 

 

Taija McLuckie  28:17 

You know, I was very fortunate that when I started this work, that I was supported by someone who had a tonne of experience working with peers and supporting drug users, and activists, and advocates, and coming from working in, she worked with on the downtown Eastside for, I think it was like, 20 years, or something, ridiculous amount of time and which, like downtown Vancouver is quite peer-led in so many ways. And I think that's what, you know, kind of snowballed my peer work path, because of how much she valued peer workers and their lived experience or lived and living experience. And like that being an expertise, anything that I wanted to do, or she thought that I was good at, it would be like, 'go do it,' or 'do you want to do this?'  

 

Taija McLuckie  29:23 

And so I've moved through quite a few positions and quite quickly because of how much she values me and that sets a foundation or how I could see myself, so when I am met with, when I am met with situations and meetings where I'm used as like a token peer, I know because of how I was treated and like the foundation that this person helped me lay that that was not okay. And that's not always not always the case, some people have to go through that and then come out of working on projects, and be like, 'Oh, my God, I was just like abused through that whole thing and didn't even know it.' So I was very fortunate in that sense.  

 

Caitlin Burritt  30:15 

Yeah. Has that allowed you to be, with that foundation, a bit more intentional in the, say, the projects that you participate in?  

 

Taija McLuckie  30:24 

Yeah, it, it allows me to kind of like take the hits for someone else. So when another organisation does decide to utilise peer guidance or um, or consult peers that, that they will hopefully just do better next time because I've been able to say, 'No, this is not right.' Rather than someone have to go through it to kind of maybe doesn't know any different, maybe still thinks that's what they deserve. 

 

Caitlin Burritt  31:03 

Does that ever get tiring for you, taking that brunt for other people, to shelter their experience, in a way?  

 

Taija McLuckie  31:13 

It only gets tiring or I would say, like, agitating when I have to reiterate something to someone in, in like some type of authority position where I have to remind them of like, 'hey, remember when we agreed that like, this is way out of line? And this is what I deserve? And you were like, Yeah, okay, let's change it. And I just want to remind you [of] that because we're here, again,' that's when it gets frustrating. It's never, it's never the work. It's never the client, well sometimes, just depends on the day I'm having. But the work itself is not, it's not the hard part, it's not the tiring part. The tiring part of the system that we face, that we're trying to claw and dismantle.  

 

Caitlin Burritt  32:08 

Yeah, the, the external forces. You had mentioned, also that your supervisor had a lot of experience in downtown Eastside, Vancouver, and that that was very peer-led, is it different on the island, in your experience? Because you're North Island, If I --

 

Taija McLuckie  32:26 

yeah. Mhmm -- 

 

Caitlin Burritt  32:26 

recall? Yeah. Is it less peer community lead? Is that something that you're trying to encourage? 

 

Taija McLuckie  32:34 

Well, I think, because, well it's also like two different health authorities as well. And the, like, the problematic. So like, I don't know how to say this, like, the downtown Eastside in Vancouver, when you say that, it's immediately associated with people who are unhoused, drug addicts, encampments. And that's been for, I don't even know what how far back that goes. But since I was a kid, my dad worked downtown. And I'm, like, I've seen it. So more than 30, more than 33 years. And, and that's how long they have been, you know, fighting for this, like peer-led, and we also have a society that never thinks anything's ever gonna happen to them.  

 

Taija McLuckie  33:27 

So now that this has become this, crisis isn't even a heavy enough word, like shitshow, everywhere, and that it's, like visibly affecting everybody, because I'm sure it was affecting everybody before, we were just better at like hiding it. So yeah, there is much more there because of how much longer it's been going on, visibly. And here, I think we're just getting to a place where we're, you know, trying to find out what our rights are for encampments, and how, you know, housing as a human right, how to go up against the big machine.  

 

Taija McLuckie  34:12 

So we're kind of just all starting from scratch. Thankfully, there's the internet and like a tonne of information. So it will move quickly, I think for other communities and like, my own community to create and support these drug users groups. And yeah, so yeah, there's definitely way more there. But now we're just kind of in a position where we have to start doing something. At least we don't have to reinvent the wheel. 

 

Caitlin Burritt  34:38 

Mhmm, yeah, it seems like the theme through a lot of our conversations is that there are solutions, but it's just about implementing them with the resources that are available and trying to negotiate it, basically, with the Island Health authority and a lot of those type of factors. 

 

Taija McLuckie  34:57 

Yeah, and you know, create those relationships with law enforcement and business, like community businesses, and then other, like, different supporting agencies, trying to get them to all come to the same table and be authentic and be transparent on what they're doing. Everyone's all, we're all busy fighting for the same funding, most of the things that are peer-led are also supported by non-profits. Yeah. Like, I just felt that, I was like, 'oh right, all of the things.'  

 

Caitlin Burritt  35:33 

Yeah. I'm sure. Yeah, of it's like, not having to reinvent the wheel. But also sometimes I'm sure it feels like you're stuck with the wheel at the same time. 

 

Taija McLuckie  35:42 

Yeah. Oh, yeah. And it's flat. I, we can like finish off with some good news about a peer-led programme here. I have the honour and privilege of supporting the [bleeped] street outreach, which is a entirely peer-based and peer-coordinated, people with living experience, outreach team who have a contract with the city, and to do like needle pickups and garbage pickups.  This [person], or these two, who are, like, co-founders and coordinators of the street outreach team, just received funding for e-bikes. Because it was like his dream to do, to kind of piggyback off of the Spikes on Bikes in Vancouver, where these two guys go around with, like, pedal bikes, and with like, Sharps containers, all like rigged up to the side. So people to put their Sharps in there rather than leave them on the street.  

 

Taija McLuckie  36:47 

So now, because the [bleeped] is huge, it's hard to get around on foot, and especially when the weather is like this, you know, two feet of snow outside. So yeah. My kids' dad owns [bleeped] and he ended up, like, I guess, I want to say like, donating, two brand new bikes to the street outreach team, and just basically gave it to them for his, like, wholesale cost. Which is, yeah, it was amazing. I was really proud of him. Yeah, they just received the funding and the bikes are sitting in my living room right now, actually. 

 

Caitlin Burritt  37:34 

Nice! That's,  is that something that also has been a long process, a long time coming to get organised? 

 

Taija McLuckie  37:44 

Yeah. We have been talking about it, well I mean, the coordinator of this programme, he has been talking about this since the day I met him. So like a year and a half ago, one of the first things he brought up, he's like, 'this is what I want to do.' And I immediately was like, 'hey, I might know a guy.' And, and it has been a topic of conversation for quite a long time. It just took a while to, you know, procure the funding and the plan around it. And so it was just voted on by the steering committee just a week ago. And then in two days, I had the bikes at my house. 

 

Caitlin Burritt  38:21 

Well, that is so exciting! And as you say, it's gonna make their jobs a lot easier. Yeah, two feet of snow's, is a lot on foot.  

 

Taija McLuckie  38:31 

Yeah, and when it's cold, and like, you have to just cover so much ground. They also do, like, garbage pickups. And so their, they have a friend who takes, like old trailer like hookups, you know, the ones you put your kids in, on, like pedal bikes? So he like, takes those and then reworks them to make them as like actual trailers. So they're gonna, like, rig up the trailers to the e-bikes. And then that way they can like put their garbage in there and not have to carry huge garbage bags back to where I work. It just makes getting around so much easier. If someone needs help and they're, you know, a kilometre away, you can just rip there to go deliver harm reduction supplies and offer peer support in such an efficient way. 

 

Caitlin Burritt  39:22 

As you say, that's such, a that's such a great outcome. And yeah, it will really allow them to reach out to more people in, in less time. So that must be very satisfying to see come through. 

 

Taija McLuckie  39:38 

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I am very grateful to be able to be able support. I think they're going to make a significant difference in this world. Even our small little world over on the North Island, but I think that they will do big things and whatever I can do the support, I'll do it. Yay peer work! 

 

Caitlin Burritt  40:04 

Yay peers! And yeah, it's something that the community will feel directly, as well. It must also be nice of, now that they have it they can just go out. The waiting phase is over. So, yeah, yeah, that's great.  

 

Caitlin Burritt  40:19 

That brings us to the end of this episode of the Unsilencing Stories Podcast, to listen to more interviews in the series, please go to www.unsilencingstories.com. And if you'd like to share your thoughts on the episode message us at unsilencingstories@gmail.com. Thank you for listening.