Unsilencing Stories

Taija McLuckie: Episode 4: Exposure to Death & Trauma

Unsilencing Stories Season 2 Episode 13

In this episode, you'll hear Tajia McLuckie talk with Caitlin Burritt and Ashley White about facing exposure to death and trauma in her work. She tells the story of the first time she responded to an opioid overdose and the effect it had on her.

Glossary:

Brave COOP:  The cooperative of people responsible for creating the Brave Sensor
Brave Sensor: An Overdose Detection tool for public bathrooms
CAT: Community Action Team
Decriminalization: A three year pilot project which began on January 31, 2023,which exempts adults carrying small amounts of illicit drugs from being subject to arrest or criminal charges.
Downtown Eastside: The Downtown Eastside is a neighbourhood in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada, known for having a large unhoused population, many of whom are affected by substance use disorder.
Mobile Response Team: An outreach team in Taija’s community, created to support frontline workers during the Opioid Crisis
Moms Stop The Harm: A network of Canadian families impacted by substance-use-related harms and deaths, which advocates to end substance use related stigma, harms and death.
NA: Narcotics Anonymous 
Naloxone: A medicine that rapidly reverses an opioid overdose.
OAT: Opioid agonist therapy
VIHA: Vancouver Island Health Authority (also referred to as Island Health)

This episode was recorded on November 14, 2022.

Caitlin Burritt  00:00 

Thank you for listening to the Unsilencing Stories Podcast. We are in the midst of a public health crisis. More than 32,000 people in Canada have died from fatal opioid overdoses since 2016, according to Health Canada. Previously, this podcast featured interviews with bereaved people in smaller towns and communities in BC and Alberta who have lost loved ones to fatal overdose. In this phase, we're sharing interviews with seven harm reduction workers also known as peers in different parts of BC.     

 

Caitlin Burritt  00:27 

The BC Centre for Disease Control Harm Reduction Services defines harm reduction as support services and strategies that aim to keep people safe and minimise death, disease and injury from high risk behaviour. Peers face a lot of challenges. This has been documented by many researchers including Zahra Mamdani and colleagues in BC. In their 2021 paper, they outline significant challenges peers face including financial struggles, difficulty finding housing and stressors at work. We wanted to explore these themes with peers and find out more about their experiences and share this information with the public. So we conducted multiple remote interviews with harm reduction workers and invited them to talk about the stressors they face.   

 

Caitlin Burritt  01:06 

Please note this podcast contains information about substance use overdose death, grief, trauma, and stressors that peers face and this may be distressing to listen to. The podcast is part of a research project led by Aaron Goodman, PhD faculty member at Kwantlen Polytechnic University in Surrey, BC, and conducted under the auspices of a grant known as the Chancellor's Chair Award. I'm Caitlin Burritt, a researcher with the project a number of researchers including Giorgia Ricciardi and Chloe Burritt, who happens to be my sister, and a number of students have played key roles in the study, and you'll hear many of their voices in this podcast.      

 

Caitlin Burritt  01:40 

In this episode, you'll hear Tajia McLuckie talk with Caitlin Burritt and Ashley White about facing exposure to death and trauma in her work. She tells the story of the first time she responded to an opioid overdose and the effect it had on her. 

 

Taija McLuckie  01:52 

The exposure to trauma, I'm just thinking like recently, like, just different ways that I've like felt like triggered. 

 

Caitlin Burritt  02:00 

Yeah, if that is the most natural progression, we can go there. Um, so, you mentioned feeling triggered, do you want to start with describing some of those instances? Or we can also go down our question list if that is better for you. 

 

Taija McLuckie  02:20 

Well I was, I'm thinking about, like, this presentation that I have coming up with Island Health, and it's on like, harm reduction supports, and then community supports, post discharge, like after or like out of the hospital, or like, acute care settings. And I was invited to give this presentation back in September, and like, we joked earlier when we were chatting, sort of being like a master procrastinator, but I've found going through, you know, collecting like, information and like starting to do like the slides, and I find myself doing everything else I can to avoid working on this presentation, which is conflicting, because I am super excited and quite proud of myself for even getting this opportunity. Like it's a big deal. I feel like I've earned it, but I, I'm still super grateful.  

 

Taija McLuckie  03:23 

And, and yeah, just as you were, like, going through like, the topics and stuff, I kind of, like, came to this like, realisation that I'm presenting, you know, how I wanted and wished and deserved to be treated to a bunch of health professionals who weren't so nice when I was using and, or compassionate, I guess nice isn't a very great word to use. And that, yeah, it just kind of dawned on me that my, like, traumatic experiences that I had in the past and then also not wanting to access the health services that were equipped to support me. Avoiding everything is definitely like a traumatic response. 

 

Caitlin Burritt  04:13 

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And it must be. Then also, when you're, when you're aware of it, trying to balance that response with also doing the work for something that you, as you say, you are excited about, it must be a sort of --

 

Taija McLuckie  04:31 

oh, it's a trip --  

 

Caitlin Burritt  04:32 

an interesting place to be. Yeah. 

 

Taija McLuckie  04:34 

Yeah, it is. And it's quite frustrating too. Because it's, it's one of those responses that just kind of it obviously slowly crept up on me. And in this line of work, we see a lot, a lot of like, physical  injuries and a lot of, like, just a lot of trauma every day. And having people, you know, talk about their experiences, like, I'm not at work on Saturday and Sunday. So when I come in on Monday, usually the first two days are filled with, you know, people's stories and what happened on the weekend. And when it's like taking little like nerf bullets, so you don't really notice how much your mind processes. And I mean, I find, like folks are more inclined to, like, open up with me because of that lived experience. Because we kind of come from the same place. Even though our stories might be a bit different, there's just like a, an understanding, like a common ground there. And then you have, like, your own history and your own events that kind of get triggered along the way, but it just, silent. 

 

Caitlin Burritt  06:05 

Yeah, and I think you've, you've mentioned in the past, which, you know, really stood out to me, is that one of the things that makes you very good at your job is giving that compassionate and very human response to people. But do you find that, you know, that then takes a toll on you for, you're carrying, sort of, the weight of their stories and their experiences, as well as your own? Like, do you find that it it, as you say, it's maybe, doesn't feel immediately super heavy, but can build over time, or? 

 

Taija McLuckie  06:44 

 I think I do my best in caring for times, when I do notice that it is getting like quite heavy and, you know, sourcing out those supports. Again, that's where I find like being a peer in like the social work or health and community services, is there, it's like a double edged sword, having the lived experience and the understanding to whatever degree does make peers experts in this field. And on the other side of that, because we have that like genuine history, we have to work a little bit harder than say, someone that they might be able to connect because they're empathetic, and just, like, a good human. But when. I find a lot of the times, someone, when people are sharing their story or an experience that they've gone through, it immediately, like, brings me back to a moment where I'm like, 'Yeah, I know what that's like.' Yeah, so it takes a lot of work to like, stay on top of your emotional well-being. 

 

Caitlin Burritt  08:05 

Absolutely. Yeah. And you mentioned also that it's not necessarily once in a while that you're being exposed to trauma or instances like that. How often do, would you say that you are facing trauma or even death in your line of work? 

 

Taija  08:29 

Well, we've had, in the last two and a half weeks, we've had five community members die, which is an exceptional number for this area. Unfortunately, this is the like, so like last year, some of our like council members, they didn't believe that anyone in [bleeped] and [bleeped] were homeless, just because you couldn't see it. The substance use it wasn't like, right in front of your face. And so, and it's probably like the, the numbers have at least like, two and a half times from where they were. One of the services saw, like, two summers hours ago, maybe 10 people, like, throughout a whole day and now on average, they're seeing over 100 every day. Accessing like food and water and just like, social supports. Sorry, I forgot what the original question was. 

 

Caitlin Burritt  09:30 

Oh. It was a how much, basically how, how often you're, you're facing the trauma and you were talking about there'd been community member deaths recently, which you're saying is occurring at a at a higher level now than, than it was. How, how does that impact you, in your, in your work and in your day to day? Both just in exposure to it, but also knowing that the numbers are increasing? 

 

Taija McLuckie  10:09 

I think depending on the day, some days it feels helpless. It feels defeating. It can make me angry, where we're at now was avoidable and preventable. And even moving forward, like, these deaths were unnecessary and tragic. And although it makes me feel all of those frustrations, the other side of that is, like the fuel to just keep going and like to keep pushing and to keep, like, pressuring policy and government and change because someone, like, someone has to do it. There has to be a group that keeps moving forward, or else there's just gonna be nothing left. 

 

Taija McLuckie  11:16 

Yeah, it's... I like love to hate it. If that, that helps, yeah, really just depends on the day. I, like, some days, I leave my work, and I'm ecstatic because something great happened and then, you know, I go to bed one night, wake up the next day, and I'm like, 'fuck! like something else happened,' you know? And, yeah, facing systems is agitating. 

 

Caitlin Burritt  11:48 

Yeah, especially when, as you say, it's kind of the, not all the time, but it can be the extremes of you've got something, something positive came through and then also then the more negative aspect of how it can impact community. Does the exposure to trauma and death in your community? I mean, I guess you were, you were just touching on it of, of how does it make you think about your work? Or, and maybe has that changed over time in the way that you approach your work and how willing you are to come in and face the, the realities of, of the job? 

 

Taija McLuckie  12:30 

I think, well, I know that it was an exhausting learning curve. Learning, you know, how much to give, how much to let in, and you can't learn. You can't learn, like, this role in a textbook and you can't, like, you just you gotta like live it and go through it and make mistakes. And sometimes, like, oh, man, one time I made a mistake that like cost someone, almost cost someone their housing, just by like, not passing on a message or something, you know? And moments like that just remind me to check in with myself. And when I'm having a day where I'm not in the headspace in order to, like, support someone effectively, having a team around you that you can communicate that with and knowing that you have support. 

 

Taija McLuckie  12:30 

I mean, if I was like out in community, just like, not working and someone needed that, like there was an overdose that needed a response, I would respond by myself if I was the only one there, but I just have like a hard rule that I don't respond to any sort of like medical or respiratory distress alone, it's really important to like, have that person, whoever that is. Because yeah, sometimes things happen. Brains are weird. So you need to be able to, like, leave whatever like, ego or anything that you have and just, like, be honest, like, with where you're at. Yeah, so the learning curve can be painful one sometimes. 

 

Caitlin Burritt  14:30 

As you say, that's, that's not one that you necessarily just go through the, the list of a job description in a, in a pamphlet or something and, and figure out in one day. Have you had to take time off from work before, to sort of regather yourself in response to dealing with with trauma? Or I know in the past, you've also mentioned that you sort of, you've shifted your your, your role slightly to not be as much on the direct frontline. Was that part of a response as well?  

 

Taija McLuckie  15:09 

Two answers to that. First, having to take time off. I responded to an overdose when I worked at a supportive housing unit. And it was the first, like, my first blue like, unresponsive participant. And because fortunately, like, the folks there were really great on, like, communicating with staff and calling down to say, like, you know, 'do a wellness check.' So we were, like, we built a really strong foundation there, I find, but in this case, the person caring for her in that unit, decided for whatever his, where his mental state was at, but he wasn't calling for help.  

 

Taija McLuckie  15:58 

She was also a friend that I had previous to that employment and, and that was also the first time I administered Naloxone. Fortunately, she was revived, just I remember her eyes and the way that, like, she looked at me, and then I knew she was like, conscious, like, we linked. And I was, like, looking at her. And then she, like, got this big smile on her face, and then just broke down, like, into my arms in tears, and I'm crying, and she's crying. And because we have, we had this relationship, like outside of this, you know, and, and I was just, I don't know, if, happy's not the right word, I was relieved.  

 

Taija McLuckie  17:02 

And just like, gave her the like, longest hug ever. And then she was apologising. And I just was like, 'you have nothing to be sorry about!' like, you know, we just had like, this beautiful moment. And then and then I went and debriefed with my shift partner. And I went home because it was a graveyard shift. So I went home that morning. And, and I just, I kept running like, the image through my head of like, when I like first walked in there, and then my like, fear, and then trying not to, like, be angry at this person who wasn't letting anyone call for support.  

 

Taija McLuckie  18:00 

There were so many feelings that were coupled with every time I closed my eyes, that's all I could see, was like, her body. And and then I didn't sleep for like, four days. And couldn't, like, I didn't know why I wasn't sleeping. Yeah, I guess I, like I went like, manic. I'm not sure if that would be the right word, but, and then I got a call from my, from the coordinator of that programme, and she was like, 'I'm gonna give you a gift.' And I was like, 'what?' She was like, 'it's not gonna feel like it at first. But it's a gift, I promise.' She was like 'you're gonna go on medical leave.' And where she was wrong is that it did feel like a gift, I was, she was an incredible leader and support and she had built, like, the trust that I had in her and her decision making, regardless of whether or not I agreed or didn't like it. I still trusted that the decision was correct. So I just, my response was, "thank you." And I was off work for two months after that. The second one, I can't remember what it was. 

 

Caitlin Burritt  19:30 

Well, first of all, thank you for sharing that story. And the second question was, in the past, you had mentioned that you had worked more on the frontline with, with the peer work and harm reduction and now transferred to harm reduction support work, was that partially informed by the exposure to trauma, being in a first responding type of position? 

 

Taija McLuckie  19:57 

Yes, leaving that, my previous place of employment was absolutely necessary. It was an environment that didn't so much foster or promote the safety and well-being of their staff. I think most of the time, because these types of services were so new to this nonprofit, that they were wildly unprepared and unfortunately, unable to admit that they didn't know what they are doing. And responding to, like, any medical emergency, with someone who is untrained, who is supposed to be your support in that moment, is terrifying.  

 

Taija McLuckie  21:08 

You know, sometimes there's like 15 or 20 peers that are around and their friend is, you know, overdosing and they're all panicked and they're all, like, some are crying and some are, you know, loading Naloxone, and one person is giving the Naloxone and so when you're there as like a peer worker and you're trying to, you know, talk to dispatch, and then also like, do all of your checks on this human being and listen to dispatch, but then also trying to, because you're alone in this moment, crowd control, and it's the unorganised response, it really takes, it takes a toll. Most of the time, I would leave those situations and, like, go to the backroom and just cry. Yeah, and it just didn't seem to matter how much education was offered. Like if, you know, if I'm asking for can we have like a unified overdose response or these are like the principles of harm reduction.  

Taija McLuckie  22:18 

This is how you meet people where they're at. You got to stop telling people, like, are they ready to get clean? 'Cause they're not fucking dirty? It just the best, the best practices within that, like, organisation are outdated and irresponsible. And it made the job nearly impossible to go back to every day, which is unfortunate because it's the only service that actually provides like a low barrier setting. 

 

Caitlin Burritt  22:53 

It sounds like you have experienced the range of the type of support that you can receive, from your supervisor giving you the medical leave, which it sounds like you were, you trusted that person so that was well received, to being in a situation where. Did you just find it unsustainable because your needs weren't being met?  

 

Taija McLuckie  23:14 

Yeah, well, it just seems like the more I brought that the issue to light that, you know we, the staff, we need training, we need meetings, we need, we need to build a team here and the more, like, opportunities I would offer or suggest, it was quite often met with, like, stay in your lane. And I just, it was like anytime, oh man. The top like the top-down management is super toxic, so yeah, leaving there, it took a few months. It was, what made it so difficult is because I love that work. I love chaos coordinating. And I think I've said before there are people who, like, run into a burning building and there's people who run out and I've always been that person that runs in. I am the most calm in, like, crisis situations and I miss the client interaction. That was so difficult to leave. Yeah, 'cause I do, I love, I love that. I love just like being in, like, the bottom and yeah. Yeah, it was not easy. But being where I am now. It was. It's amazing. I'm back to that environment, where I just trust and they trust me. Yeah. 

 

Caitlin Burritt  25:18 

Yeah. Which I think for any job, it's a bad when it's a very top-down, stuck in that type of way, approach, even in low pressure scenarios. So I can't imagine in something where you are doing a tonne of medical responses and things like that, that must have been very stressful. But do you think it's common, say for the story you shared, where you were able to revive the person from the overdose, but it wasn't just a person that you were a stranger to? Part of the trauma is that because you are so connected, when you do peer work, to the community that it's, the relationship is maybe a bit different than, say, if you're, a paramedic is coming in, they don't necessarily know the community members, is that part of the weight of the job?  

 

Taija McLuckie  26:07 

Oh, I think absolutely. And again, that's also one of the best parts of the job. And I was actually having this conversation with a paramedic, about a month ago, we have this paramedic in our community who's just unreal, he volunteers for, we have a caravan that goes around a few days a week at nighttime, and they hand out like harm reduction supplies, and you know, snacks, and they have a doctor on board and a nurse. And sometimes there's like a dentist that hooks up with them. And it's all volunteers that go around in this van. And one of the things that I'm hoping to facilitate with a peer who, like, is currently coordinating a programme and he has, like living experience, is bringing peers into like, the ambulance bay or setting up some type of education.  

 

Taija McLuckie  27:08 

Because I can't imagine what it would be like to, say you've, you know, responded to the same person's distress three times in a day, or, you know, four times in a week. And where I've heard paramedics say like, 'buddy, that's, this is the third time this week.' And I've had to be like, 'That's not helpful right now.' Like, do you think he's like, 'Third time's a charm. Hopefully, I get the same paramedic so they can be a dick.' Like, he's not doing this intentionally. But what I know is that I have that relationship built with this human being. And I know whether what's going on for them in that week, and you get to be there for their life experience. And paramedics don't have that, they respond, revive, or transport. And then that's it. And then they keep going.  

 

Taija McLuckie  28:14 

That sounds terrible. I can understand how, like PTSD and the burnout happens, because it's just the human experience. They're so, they're just so far removed from it. So although these experiences absolutely can be traumatic, the next level of it, dealing with it and debriefing, I also have an understanding of that human being. Yeah, I think it makes processing, for me anyways, for processing, it makes it less difficult. Like I don't find I have as many whys 

 

Caitlin Burritt  28:54 

So it offsets some of the -- 

 

Taija McLuckie  28:57 

mhmm -- 

 

Caitlin Burritt  28:57 

stresses because you've got context and awareness of the person. You mentioned at one point that you're very good at chaos coordinating, you said. What other strengths do you have that you think makes you so good in those situations? 

 

Taija McLuckie  29:13 

I don't fit the mould. For most people, I find. Growing up I just had this idea that like either people really liked me for, like, who I am and like my, the way that like I think and the way that I do things, or they didn't like me, whether they got frustrated with how I did something because it was, always seemed like outside of the norm. That was a hard one, like, to accept growing up but now being in a position that I am. I find because of the way that I think and because I think of ideas that are not typical or the way I go about something is unique. That it, I don't know, helps me support people and myself. Yeah, just I'm like a think outside the box kind of person. But I've never had the ability to think in the box. I don't even think I've looked inside it. 

 

Caitlin Burritt  30:25 

That's yeah, I think that's a good, a good way to put it. And you've found a space where those skills are really beneficial because, you know, crises, they don't fit in boxes either. So. 

 

Taija  30:37 

Yeah. 

 

Caitlin Burritt  30:38 

I think that makes sense. Ashley, do you have any questions for Tajia before we go? 

 

Ashley White  30:44 

I think this may have been touched on but maybe not. I'll just ask it again. If  it, if we have, we can. Is there any? Because we've talked, you've talked about kind of the support you've had in your work and stuff. Is there anything that you would like to see, like as more support, just in this area for you or people you work with or participants you work with? 

 

Taija McLuckie  31:07 

There are quite a few guidelines and best practice policies when it when involving peers on projects, or peer engagement or peer employment. There's, it's not new information.  

Ashley White  31:22 

Mhmm. 

 

Taija McLuckie  31:23 

And, and these have been developed like by people who use drugs, by people, you know, like with that lived and living experience, and who've, who've done the peer work. And I would very much appreciate it. If services that are going to employ peers and engage peers would do their job and Google it. It's not hard to find, there are quite a few harm reduction resources out there. Stop making us reinvent the wheel every single time we go into a project or employment on what your best policies and procedures are, put in half the amount of effort that peers and people with lived and living experience have on these documents, when engaging us because continually coming to the table with no understanding, it's just ignorant. Yeah, so that's what I would like to see, a little more effort from the other side.  

 

Ashley White  32:39 

Yeah. Maybe a little bit more understanding of the job description and a little more research? 

 

Taija McLuckie  32:46 

Yeah, like, if you're going to hire a surgeon, you're not just going to like, look up --

 

Ashley White  32:51 

yep -- 

 

Taija McLuckie  32:52 

surgeon applications, you're going to look, if you need a brain surgeon, you're going to research the best brain surgeon, and you already know what is required for the job. You know, like, yeah, stop being lazy. 

 

Caitlin Burritt  33:04 

Yeah, the resources already there. So meeting at the halfway point would be good.  

 

Taija McLuckie  33:10 

Yeah. Just even read, like, the Cliff Notes. Yeah.  

 

Caitlin Burritt  33:13 

Well --  

 

Taija McLuckie  33:14 

Thank you for that question, by the way. 

 

Ashley White  33:16 

Oh, of course.  

 

Taija McLuckie  33:17 

That was a good one. 

 

Caitlin Burritt  33:18 

All right. So on that note, do you have any final thoughts for the day, Tajia? 

 

Taija McLuckie  33:25 

No, thank you. Again, this is great. I also love being in an environment where I can take over someone's office and work for a place that read the peer engagement policies and procedure before they started hiring them. Go Team! 

 

Caitlin Burritt  33:50 

That is good, we'll take it!  

 

Caitlin Burritt  33:54 

That brings us to the end of this episode of the Unsilencing Stories Podcast, to listen to more interviews in the series, please go to www.unsilencingstories.com. And if you'd like to share your thoughts on the episode message us at unsilencingstories@gmail.com Thank you for listening.